Posted on

Sabrina Gardner

Founder + CEO | Salt by Sabrina, Alpine

Life is better with a sprinkle of salt. Sabrina Gardner had spent 16 years working in marketing when she had the goal to pivot and start a business. With a knack for turning chaos into order, Salt by Sabrina was born. This organizational product company is designed to help people find power in organization. Salt By Sabrina has made deals with popular brands like TJ Maxx, Downeast Home and The Gatehouse. Every home could use a little more Salt!

SHOULDERING THE LOAD
“As a working mother, you are all things to all people! Then, a year ago, out of nowhere, I was diagnosed with thyroid and breast cancer. I had five surgeries in seven months, leaving me constantly in treatment and recovery. I had to find a new balance letting go of pretty much everything and relying heavily on family and the great team at Salt to carry the load while I focused on surviving.
   “As my life was stripped down to the most basic aspects, I began to look at building a new life. It was simpler, less busy and infinitely more intentional. I actually said no to someone else driving my kids around so I could have that time in the car with them.
   “From a life-changing cancer diagnosis to the huge success of moving our manufacturing to the United States, 2024 was a wild ride that ended with a profound sense of gratitude, a simple approach to daily life and a hope for good things to come.” 

A STEP AT A TIME
“My background in graphic design, content marketing and photography was critical in the building of Salt by Sabrina. When I launched this new brand, it had a polished, luxury feel that allowed us to catch attention early and fast. 

   “My husband Rob’s network made a huge impact for me. He worked at Goal Zero, and one of his co-workers is now my COO! My husband also introduced me to our original manufacturing partner, my accounting team, and my legal team. 

   “During my years in commercial photography, I worked with wonderful non-profits. I traveled to remote parts of the world and documented natural disasters and the people who provided much-needed relief to those affected. Those experiences and connections actually helped bring in mentoring and support when it came time to build Salt.” 

BRAINSTORM
“In February 2020, I wrote down a single goal: Start a business. Then Covid happened. We had just moved into our new home and the world was chaos. I remember standing in my kitchen with boxes piled everywhere looking into the faces of my children and seeing real fear. So, I did what I do when I’m stressed and that is get to work. I unpacked every box and organized every single drawer down to the last pencil. 

   “The fear lessened as our home became a sanctuary from the storm raging outside. There is power in organization. It changes the way we feel and empowers us to deal with life’s daily challenges. I also realized there was a huge opportunity for products that worked in the organizational market. And that was the start of Salt by Sabrina, a company providing the best quality organizational products designed to help people stay organized in the long run.”

GIVE HER A HAND
“I love that I created a drawer organizer that actually fits your drawer! Before Salt by Sabrina organizers, you had to buy things that didn’t fit, had to be replaced, weren’t sterile, and looked junky. The impact of a perfectly fitting, beautiful, antimicrobial and crystal-clear organizer is significant! With my organizers, you maximize your storage space, save money not re-buying organizers that don’t work, and ours look absolutely stunning in your drawers. Our custom, acrylic drawer organizers are always the top sellers but my personal favorite is our acrylic utensil caddy!” 

Posted on

Mou Nandi

Co-Founder + CEO | Monere, Lehi

With a plethora of health issues plaguing society, Mou Nandi decided to tackle anemia monitoring after she had two friends who became anemic. Among many other symptoms, for women, it can lead to preterm delivery, and for children, poor cognitive development. The disease requires regular screening and monitoring, which is where Monere’s role begins. Monere uses a software that Mou’s team built called NiADA, Non-Invasive Anemia Detection with AI. As an active student in the Master’s of Business Creation program at the University of Utah, Mou’s work with anemia detection technology has just begun.

SHOULDERING THE LOAD
“My day-to-day looks like creating something new, from zero to one. It is a long day. We have a subsidiary in India, and we work in global health, so it is sometimes around the clock. We are problem solvers. It is hard to keep track of healthy habits. I hold a lot of other responsibilities, and I try to keep them balanced but I do not feel that I always have to be perfect. Luckily, I have great support around me.”

A STEP AT A TIME
“My team and I have more than two decades of experience in medicine and in building scalable software platforms using search engines and AI. We used our experience in building software solutions with image processing/AI and medicine to build a digital health screening and monitoring solution for anemia surveillance.”

BRAINSTORM
“Two of my closest female friends became anemic — which is low hemoglobin level in blood. That was the trigger for Monere. I started researching and found out that anemia is a huge problem for both the developed and developing world. More than 2 billion people, mainly women and children, are anemic. My team and I have extensive experience in building scalable AI/image processing solution and also in medicine. We built NiADA (Non-invasive Anemia Detection with AI) to solve the global anemia surveillance problem.”

GIVE HER A HAND
“We have found a way to use AI for solving a big global burden of anemia. Our team built an accessible and affordable solution that uses ideas from the history of medicine with cutting-edge proprietary AI technology. 

   “Having an academic solution is not enough. You have to productize it to make it available for the world, which requires complementary skill sets and a willingness to work together for a goal.”

Posted on

Amy Caldwell

Co-Founder | RevRoad, Provo

When Amy Caldwell and a group of colleagues gathered in Derrin Hill’s family room, they knew they wanted to make a difference. Passionate people with a desire to lift turned into RevRoad, a startup accelerator “putting the human in capital.” Amy has found immense joy in this startup space because of her chance to foster genuine relationships that help founders seize opportunities and increase speed. 
Rev up!

SHOULDERING THE LOAD
“I recently handed over the chief investment officer role, and now my focus is on business development and growth opportunities. My day involves meeting with potential partners, sitting in on investment pitches with the team, exploring collaborations with other funding partners, and driving overall growth for RevRoad. 

   “Events are my jam! Whether it’s a pitch competition, a trade show, or a lunch learning about the new problem a founder is working to solve, I’m in!

   “I’m a wife to my best friend. I’m a mother to four incredible children who inspire me every day. I’m a fiercely loyal friend, and even if we haven’t spoken in years, I still think about and love you! I also serve in my local church, working with some amazing young women.
   “Learning to set boundaries and prioritize what matters most has been essential. I’ve had to let go of seeking approval from others and focus more on being true to myself and my beliefs.”

A STEP AT A TIME
“When I worked in the film industry, my job was to ensure harmony on set, which often meant building positive relationships with everyone nearby. I collaborated closely with the director and production designer to find the right locations, coordinate with the cast and crew, manage logistics, and work with local departments and communities.

   “My time with Fidelity Investments and Wells Fargo allowed me to deepen my understanding of client relationships, finance, and service excellence. I even spent time in retail.

   “But the role that has given me the greatest experience is being a mom, wife, and CEO of my home. This has helped me prioritize and stay grounded in my values — and the skills I’ve gained are truly invaluable in building and running a company.”

BRAINSTORM
“RevRoad’s story began right in Derrin Hill’s family room. He gathered friends, family and trusted colleagues to brainstorm ideas for the next big problem we could solve. That group grew smaller, eventually forming the founding team of RevRoad.    

   “Our shared goal was simple but profound: Find a way to support founders at the earliest, riskiest stages of their journey. As we dove deeper, we saw a significant gap in the startup life-cycle. We wanted to bridge the gap between the raw beginnings of a startup and the stage where it’s ready for venture capital. That’s when the idea for RevRoad really took shape. RevRoad started with an idea: To empower founders to leap into entrepreneurship with confidence and support. That idea has grown beyond what I initially imagined, and I’m excited to see where it will lead us in the years to come.”

GIVE HER A HAND
“What I’m most proud of? In one word, relationships. From the beginning, I’ve made it a priority to build genuine, lasting connections. This focus on people has shaped every part of RevRoad — our portfolio companies, investors, board members, mentors, sponsors, and the community around us. I’m committed to investing in people and really knowing them — their stories, challenges, victories and motivations. This approach, I believe, is the foundation of true success, especially in business. As I’ve led business development and investments at RevRoad, I’ve witnessed firsthand how putting people first brings lasting, positive results.”

Posted on

Lauren Foster

Co-Founder | PLUNJ, Provo

Hot. Cold. Rest. Repeat. A few years ago, Lauren Foster and her husband, Sean, would trail run together and end with a refreshing plunge in the Provo River. They purchased a cattle trough and started to host cold plunge get-togethers at home. A few months of this led Lauren to realize that Sean had stopped having panic attacks. Sean was also reading “The Finnish Way” about the benefits of sauna and cold plunging. It dawned on the Fosters: This lifestyle change had benefited their lives … why not bring it to a wider community? PLUNJ now has three active sauna/cold plunge lounge locations with more in the works. Time to take the PLUNJ.

SHOULDERING THE LOAD
“I have not quit my corporate job and am balancing that role with PLUNJ. With my PLUNJ hat on, I help manage a lot of the social media and marketing content, create training documents and resources, and assist on franchise management.
   “One benefit of working with my husband is we’ve learned to watch out for each other. We both make sure we communicate our needs regularly. 

   “In addition to my work responsibilities, I am a mom to three kiddos. Sometimes it can be tricky to meet regularly with friends, so I’d consider myself an avid user of Marco Polo. I am also active in my church and hold roles and responsibilities there as well.” 

A STEP AT A TIME
“When I think back to what led me here today, so much of it is a mix of both my personal and professional life. I have always been active and enjoyed challenging myself, whether it’s trail running, mountain biking or skiing. I am grateful for a mindset that allows me to push myself. 

   “Professionally, I have been in tech for about 12 years in roles ranging from HR, to instructional design, to project management, and currently business operations. I’ve been able to gain experience and learn the best ways to lead teams, how to manage work, focus on outcomes, and provide the best value and experience.”

BRAINSTORM
“My husband and I wanted to experience a sauna and cold plunge experience, but every place we found locally was very expensive and luxurious. It didn’t line up with what we had been learning about this kind of experience — it should be accessible and community-driven. That’s when the idea first came to our minds: What if we built our own sauna and cold plunge space? We wanted to build a space where people could gather, relax, reset and even challenge themselves. After years of planning and preparation, we decided to take the PLUNJ.” 

GIVE HER A HAND
“Our cold plunge is a creation we are proud of. What started as paint tape lines on our living room floor is now the standard, beautiful, stainless steel cold plunge you’ll find in each and every PLUNJ location. That cold plunge came with years of trial and error and working with professionals to build the best possible cold plunge experience.
   “With our old tubs we had to close 2-3 hours daily and had to constantly monitor them to ensure cleanliness standards were met. With the new cold plunge, we don’t need to close daily and because we over-engineered it, we can provide an even cleaner and better cold plunge experience.” 

Posted on

Rena Doman

Owner, Founder + CEO | Perk Energy, Vineyard

When Rena Doman fell into a deep depression years ago, one sunshine-y glimmer each morning was a “hug in a mug” that her husband would bring to her in bed. She wanted to share this cozy comfort with others, which brought Perk to the shelves. Since Perk’s founding in 2016, Rena and her husband have been filling the cups of others — literally. The duo has been working form home since Day One, and when the weather is nice, will even work from the patio! And while the sippin’ business is fun, Rena and her husband put family as their number one priority.

SHOULDERING THE LOAD
“My husband and I have a blended family of seven kids and five grandkids. Our family is everything to us! Almost every single one of them has been involved with our company, from deep emotional support and all the hugs to packing orders in the basement when we first started to helping at events. They understand the challenges that running a small business include, but they also know that they come first. 

   “I also believe that true balance means including things that have nothing to do with your business or family — your passion/peace projects. For me it is teaching yoga, opportunities I’ve had in our church to serve the youth, and being the big sister to a family of seven kids.”

A STEP AT A TIME
“I started the summer after graduation working at a title & escrow company. By the time I was 25, I was managing a title company branch and juggling my growing family. My husband and I moved to Arizona and I took over an escrow company branch there. I started to realize that this time of my life and my little kids’ lives was too precious to sacrifice. We moved back to Utah a few years later and I took that time to dive into my family’s life. 

   “Soon after, I found myself being a single mom and was so grateful for the experience that allowed me to jump back in at an escrow company again. Those years of experience helped me to be ready for the big decision we had when we started Perk. The greatest source of accurate information for you and your customers and your business is your own intuition! We just need to practice trusting ourselves more.”

BRAINSTORM
“Perk was originally designed by my husband (aka Mr. Perk) to be presented to a major outdoor retailer as an energy drink that could be made around the campfire. We had a sample batch made, and while we were waiting for the presentation date, I fell into a deep depression as the grief from my previous husband’s death took over. My husband so lovingly bought me a mug every morning in bed. It was this moment of, ‘You are loved, you can do this!’ I wanted to share the simplicity and power of that gesture with everyone I loved. Within the next few years, I ended up walking away from my 20+ year career to work on Perk full time. A few years later, my husband left his 25+ year career to join me full time. We never ended up taking that meeting to pitch the drink to the retailer.” 

GIVE HER A HAND
“It was our dream goal to get into Costco, and we spent four years actively working on our shot and growing to the level they wanted. We recently broke records at our first Costco roadshow. Watch for a big announcement soon! We are overwhelmed by the love and support from our community.

   “Our Energy line is our core product. We have over 20 flavors, but my true favorite is our new Perk Chill Chocolate Raspberry. It has protein, collagen, magnesium, zinc and the amino acid glycine. I’m such a sucker for a treat at night and it satisfies all those cravings while also helping me relax and deepen my sleep, and the flavor is chocolate-y heaven. I’m so in love with it!”

Posted on

Roxanne Wise

Founder | Rookie Wellness, SLC

BusinessQ believes Roxanne Wise deserves the Rookie of the Year award. Rookie Wellness came to life after Roxanne wanted to get back in shape after having her second child and working full time. She found herself saying, “This should be easier for somebody who is already active and trying.” So she took matters into her own hands and did just that. With its nutritional supplements, Rookie Wellness knows that the only way to grow is to embrace that beginner mindset, and to not let inexperience stop you from being brave.

SHOULDERING THE LOAD
“I’m a wife, a mom of three boys, and have lots of my siblings close. I love being a boy mom and make lots of time to support my kids in all of their hobbies. 

   “At work, every day looks different for me, and there are constant roadblocks. From cash flow, to growth opportunities, to decisions on timing. Always check in with yourself and ask the important questions. ‘What is my why? Am I maintaining the integrity of the business and my reason for starting it? What am I supposed to learn from this?’”

A STEP AT A TIME
“I was really fortunate to have had an amazing career in both advertising and e-commerce before starting Rookie. My friendships and relationships I built along the way all felt like they led me to this point in building this brand and business.”

BRAINSTORM
“I wanted supplements to feel more accessible and easier to understand. I wanted solutions, not ingredients, and an easy-to-maintain routine that bridged the gap of adaptogens and supplements in an easy-to-use way, from packaging, to ingredients, to the names etc. 

   “The more I talked with friends, the more I realized I wasn’t the only one who felt that way. Supplements are intimidating and usually sold with a side of six pack abs. I didn’t relate. I wanted to be included in the health club. So I started one. I created Rookie because I wanted people like me to know they belonged. I wanted to make elite products accessible in price point and in marketing.”

GIVE HER A HAND
I’m so proud of our greens formula. I knew I wanted it to not only taste the best, but offer the most premium ingredients and actually offer the benefit we were selling. We revised and reviewed for 17 months until we launched the product summer of 2023.

   “My favorite product is our Wake product. It was one of our first formulas we worked on and launched. It is so great for natural energy without the crash or jitters, but I mostly love the mental clarity that I feel with it! I call it my natural ADD medication.

Posted on

Olive Daphne Redd

CEO, Founder + Designer | Sønderhaus, American Fork

Through Scandinavian-inspired brand Sønderhaus, Olive Daphne Redd is creating clothing that holds heirloom-type memories. Olive designed the first collection in the fall of 2022, and now the brand is dressing Utah and beyond with ethical, sustainable, slow fashion. Olive spends her days researching trends, drawing future designs or collaborating with the team on launches — all while taking care of her two daughters who spend time with her at the office.

SHOULDERING THE LOAD
“I am a mom of two daughters, aged 3 and 4 months. They are the lights of my life. My husband works full-time as a software engineer and is my perfect opposite. Things are chaotic and overwhelming at times, but having a career that fills me up helps me to be the best mom and wife that I can be. 

   “It is important to me to have a workplace that is child- and baby-friendly. Half of our employees are moms, and more often than not, there is a toddler hanging around and multiple babies sleeping in carriers. I believe that employees are the most efficient and reliable when they feel taken care of. Having a flexible workplace is one of the ways that we foster that care and build a positive office culture. As well, we all work in one room together and it makes for the most fun, collaborative workplace.”

A STEP AT A TIME
“I attended Brigham Young University and studied family science. I loved the clothing construction classes, and it was the closest thing the university had to a fashion degree. I also worked in the Ballard Center for Social Impact, which ignited my passion for ethical manufacturing and sustainable production. I co-founded a non-profit organization that helped refugee women in Ecuador to start and scale small businesses. This was an incredibly meaningful time in my life and helped me learn business basics and discover my love for entrepreneurship.”

BRAINSTORM
The idea was to recreate pieces my sisters and I fought over from the back of our parents’ closet — pieces of clothing that hold memories. Future heirlooms. Our first clothing piece, the Jeanie Sweater, is modeled after the sweaters my paternal grandmother knits for all of her great grandchildren. All of my designs are pulled from people and places that are dear to me. 

   “I started to design our first collection in the fall of 2022. I was a new mom using nap times and evenings to dream up ideas. While trying to plan my time, I designed the ‘Our Week’ planner pad to help me stay on top of things. I shared the design to Instagram, asking if anyone would want to buy one for themselves. The planner went viral on TikTok, and all of that money went to the sampling and production process for our first collection. I brought on my sister Ingrid and our good friend Malia to help with the business and content creation. We launched our first capsule collection of five pieces in May of 2023!”

GIVE HER A HAND
“I am most proud of the community that Sønderhaus has built. The brand has pulled together like-minded people who are inspiring and sincere.

   “Our best selling item is the ‘I can’t believe it’s not vintage’ crewneck sweater. It is such a classic shape and I find myself reaching for it multiple times a week. My favorite as of late is the Elizabeth blouse that launched with our winter collection (that I’m also wearing in this photo).”

Posted on

Kiffon Douglas

Founder + CEO | Window Monsters, Provo

When it comes to windows, Kiffon Douglas is an expert. She started Window Monsters in 2005 after holding various roles (from receptionist to saleswoman) for a construction company. Now, almost 20 years in business, Kiffon brings woman’s wisdom to a male-dominated industry. Window Monsters has done so well by word of mouth, that the company hasn’t ever paid for advertising. As some of her contractors say, Kiffon is truly the “Window Goddess.”

SHOULDERING THE LOAD
“You think that as you get older life slows down, but you just get more responsibility. Once you’re a mom, you’re always a mom. I’m also a grandma. The beauty of having my own business is flexibility — my first granddaughter was born the year after I started my company, and I had her every day for a while. I ran my business and had a baby with me all day long. Later, I had her little brother with me too. My son lives next door and I get to be with his baby all the time. I also have two rescue dogs that take up a lot of my time, and I love them.”

A STEP AT A TIME
“I started working in construction in 1989 as a receptionist for a window business and hated that position — I wanted to try sales. When I approached my boss and said I wanted to do outside sales, I was told, ‘No, you’re a girl.’ But I didn’t take no for an answer. I said, ‘I can do it. I can handle myself.’ That’s how I became a saleswoman.
   “When I started Window Monsters, initially I struggled putting my systems together because I went from scratch even though I had already worked with contractors. I didn’t understand the ins and outs of deliveries, or how hard it was to give a proper time frame. I give a bigger cushion of time now for our installers. It’s been fun to figure out.”

BRAINSTORM
“I was working for another window company as a sales rep when I needed to have open heart surgery. They said the recovery would be about six weeks, but when my boss called me around that time frame asking if I was ready to come back to work, I was not healed and I had a lot of anxiety about going back. I turned in my work truck and quit. I already had all the contacts and knowledge base, so I decided to start my own company in 2005.”

GIVE HER A HAND
“I have a great team. I am so proud of them. One of my team members is my best friend’s son, and he and my son (that he’s partnered up with) complement each other really well. They’ve come a long way since they’ve started. I’ve watched them grow so much. 

   “Most of my installation crew I’ve known for a long time. I’ve known my Utah County installer since the 1990s. I know all about his family and have watched his kids grow up. I feel very blessed to work with most of my contractors. It’s like a family outside of my family.”  

Posted on

Lisa Evenson

Co-Founder + CEO | Evobox, Lehi

You can call Lisa Evenson the shipping queen. At Evobox, she and her team simplify third-party shipping (3PL). The company started as she and her husband set out to solve the problems they had experienced themselves with a previous e-commerce business they owned. Evobox uses state-of-the-art shipping tech, has 99.9% shipping accuracy, and takes “just as much care shipping your products as you do creating them.” The company was even deemed by BusinessQ Magazine as one of the fastest-growing companies in Utah Valley in 2023. Signed. Sealed. Delivered.

SHOULDERING THE LOAD
“I have always worked since my children were young, so I learned early on how to be organized and disciplined to make sure I got everything done and still had time to play with my kids. I had to learn to set boundaries when I realized I was overextending myself. I started learning to say ‘no’ to things that I felt would interfere with me being the best mom I could be. So even when I have been active in my community and church, I pay attention to my own internal stress monitor and know when to back off.

   “I’m a wife, have raised four amazing people and have seven incredible grandchildren (my favorite role of all). I also adore my nieces and nephews and send homemade birthday cards to all of our extended family members. Everyone should receive happy mail!”

A STEP AT A TIME
“I am where I am today by learning hard work at a very young age. I would go to my mom’s title company office and learn basic office skills. By learning important skills as a teenager, I also learned that no job is beneath me. I understand the importance of relationships, regardless of whether it’s in the workplace or personal life. I’ve worked hard to never burn a bridge, and while it’s hard to always maintain connections, it’s important to not be afraid to reconnect after distance.”

BRAINSTORM
“Prior to Evobox, my husband and I purchased an online drugstore and started to ship our own orders. We had 3PL companies approach us about taking over the shipping portion, but when we reviewed their contracts, there was a lot of confusion — so we kept it in-house.
   “In an effort to obtain working capital for the e-comm business, we offered a business associate some storage space in our warehouse and to ship his product for a very small fee. Before we knew it, we were shipping for six small companies. My son, daughter and I were wearing all of the hats. After about six months, we were full-time with this new business while my husband was running the other business until it sold a few years later. We set out to solve all of the problems that we experienced ourselves with our e-comm business — which were many.”

GIVE HER A HAND
“I am most proud of our team. We have spent 10 years finding the best people to run their departments. I’m proud of the fact that I learned there are people who can do various aspects of the business better than I can. Being a natural-born control freak, I learned it’s OK to let go and allow other people to excel at learning their jobs. We have worked hard to continue to innovate and scale with companies as they grow.”

Posted on

Meg Livingston

Founder | page., Saratoga Springs

Meg Livingston is a reader now. With a passion for pages, Meg Livingston founded page. in August 2023 — with the spunkiest, zestiest Kindle cases around. Page has become a community brand that’s all about the books. Meg collaborates with other artists to launch new Kindle case designs, as well as designing some of her own. As an entrepreneur/mom/wife/all of the above, a day-in-the-life looks like emails while waiting for carpool, design work while watching “The Office” with her husband, and product shoots during preschool. Reading is cool again (and so is being a female founder).

GIVE HER A HAND
“I don’t think I did this specifically, but at page., we have carved out a space for reading to be cool. To be sexy. To be fun! I think it is a space that has been dominated by men. We (the women readers) have said, ‘No, sorry sir — the dragons are for me now.’ And I love that for us. I’m glad I get to participate in this space. 

   “Per my analytics, our best-selling item is our ‘Not Smut’ Kindle case, which is funny enough because it’s the product that was born before any of the branding was established. It was a product I designed for myself, then I thought others might want it, too. 

   “My favorite item is our House of Maas T-shirt, which is a nod to the Sarah J. Maas universe. Wearing it in public is a very quick way to make friends.” 

A STEP AT A TIME
“My sweet baby, page., is my second born business baby. Her older sister, post., a jewelry brand, was founded in 2019. May she rest in peace. I was, unfortunately, fresh out of time and capacity to manage both brands. Page outgrew post in every way in under a year. I had to prioritize one brand (and my sanity). Prior to entrepreneurship, I spent a lifetime as a freelance graphic designer.” 

BRAINSTORM
“Look, I wish the business creation idea was an inspirational story, but it’s not. I was just a millennial mom who started reading spicy books and wanted a cute Kindle case to signal to the other gals who were also filling their brains with dirty stories. There’s nothing I love more than camaraderie between the girls, gays and theys!”

SHOULDERING THE LOAD
It’s ripe to ask entrepreneurs how they are maintaining balance during Q4! Look, between you and me, bestie — there’s not a balance in my life right now. A lot of work for me and a lot of Bluey for my kids. She’s over-caffeinated and under-slept, everyone. I think that’s OK to say aloud. There are seasons of insanity and seasons of rest. Circle back in January, OK?”